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Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.09.05 17:18:00 - [1] Zealot is 78 mil in Domain. Sacrilege is 110 mil in Domain. Prior to any announcement of the Khanid changes, the Sacrilege was about 68 mil in Domain. Prior to any announcements of the Khanid changes, the Zealot was about 110 mil in Domain (vague memory on this one). It is safe to say that people think the Zealot is not worth anywhere near as much anymore. In fact...the Sacrilege is more fun to fly in my opinion. The Zealot is boring and is outclassed by the harbinger. 25 m3 drone bay, 3 more turrets, +1 rig slot, +1 mid slot, -1 lowslot, obviously more grid and cpu. And also cheaper. (by about 40 mil in Domain region...I see the harbinger going for 34.8 mil). Harbinger is better than Zealot in my opinion =P --- Put in space whales!
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.09.05 18:07:00 - [2] Originally by: Ishina Fel Originally by: Lisento Slaven Harbinger is better than Zealot in my opinion =P Oh yeah! And the Armageddon is even more uber! Please buff cruiser class vessels so they're as good as or better than their bigger brethren! </sarcasm> It's not a matter of the bigger brethren being better in this case...my argument is that the Zealot is not worth the money it costs to make it. Would much rather use a Harbinger. --- Put in space whales!
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.09.05 18:37:00 - [3] Do you think buying the best implants is really an acceptable trade off and justification for the Zealot in its current state compared to its role and the roles of similar ships in EVE? Go ahead and calculate the stuff with the implants too...no one really cares about implants in this section anyways. --- Put in space whales!
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.09.05 18:44:00 - [4] Originally by: iiOs Originally by: Lisento Slaven Do you think buying the best implants is really an acceptable trade off and justification for the Zealot in its current state compared to its role and the roles of similar ships in EVE? fine, dont use implants, i was just making point about possible dps on zealot so lets take 464 dps, with 5 guns its 580DPS, now take a look at other hacs and tell me why zealot should do so much dps I'm arguing that there is no point to fly it. I'll let one of the other people who think it deserves a turret argue that one. Do you see any reason to fly the zealot though? =P --- Put in space whales!
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.09.05 23:47:00 - [5] Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Lisento Slaven The Zealot is boring and is outclassed by the harbinger. Harbinger is better than Zealot in my opinion =P um dude...Sorry but that just makes you a total nub. Most HACs wont stand up well to a decent BC. And you're comparing it to a harbinger? My Vulture does the same dps as an eagle. And my eagle does less dps than your zealot. Hows that for justice? Stop whining, and play the game. No I was stating a fact. Show me the point in flying a zealot over a harbinger or even a sacrilege now. This isn't a boost eagle thread. This is a zealot sucks thread. There are already some eagle sucks threads. My argument was that there is no point in flying a zealot. 78 mil (price still dropping) for a gun platform with boosted range and boosted resists but not any more effective than a tech 1 ship that costs around 34 mil having the same exact role and more slots to boot. If a heavy assault ship is supposed to be crap then we need to nerf more ships. --- Put in space whales!
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.09.07 02:27:00 - [6] What's the zealot's optimal range with max skills and multifreq crystals using Heavy Pulse II and the Heavy Beam II? How about with those faction crystals? --- Put in space whales!
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.09.07 03:04:00 - [7] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Lisento Slaven What's the zealot's optimal range with max skills and multifreq crystals using Heavy Pulse II and the Heavy Beam II? How about with those faction crystals? With 3 tracking mods and 3 damage mods you will do 401 DPS @ 32+10km with Beams. With 0 tracking mods and 3 damage mods you will do 401 DPS to 23+10km with Beams. With 4 damage mods and Pulse you will do 387 dps to 35+5km with Scorch and you will track better.[+2 slots][365 with 3 dmg mods] With 3 damage mods and Pulse you will do 458 DPS to 10+5km with Amarr Navy MF M. So if you take the v 220ac graph, put a point at 450 dps @ 0km, a point at 450 dps @ 10km and a point at 225 dps @ 15km then connect the dots you will get an accurate reflection of why i didnt bother including it in the graph. So 15km with Amarr Navy MF using pulse and 33km with Amarr Navy MF using beams? So essentially the Zealot can engage every target at optimal on a gate if it's coming through to the Zealot's side, using Amarr Navy MF. With a Warp disruptor 2, cap injector, and a true sansha web maybe it'll actually be a useful ship without a MWD. Would still feel more comfortable in a harbinger or a sacrilege though considering the sentries have to be tanked =\ --- Put in space whales!
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.09.07 03:24:00 - [8] Originally by: Goumindong 10km+5km falloff. At 15km you are doing 225 DPS. A Harbinger will do 479 DPS to 23+5km[before the 5 medium drones]. That is pretty much everyone in jump range with more DPS and more effective hit poitns. You wont be tanking the sentries alone with either of them, if a Zealot engaged on a gate in a propulsionless setup it would get slaughtered by the first battlecruiser/hac etc to come along. Same reason you dont see tanked vagabonds sitting on gates[which would still perform that role better] How is the harbi getting 23 optimal + 5km falloff with Amarr Navy MF when the zealot is the one with the optimal range bonus per level o_o Base range on heavy pulse II is optimal of 12km. Amarr Navy MF is -50% optimal. Zealot gets 10% range bonus per level (so at 5 it gets 50% bonus to optimal). Shouldn't the optimal with just counting HAC 5 be 12km optimal using Amarr Navy MF on the Zealot or am I doing something wrong Goumin? --- Put in space whales!
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.09.07 03:36:00 - [9] you're throwing in stuff I'm not asking for but used in common setups - and you didn't talk about the 12km optimal thing I mentioned. If I'm right about the 12km optimal (-50% negated by the 50% bonus from HAC 5) then with sharpshooter 5 (25% bonus to range) you should get 15,000 optimal with Amarr Navy MF right? Or is the 50% bonus calculated in after the Multifreq's -50% negation is in effect meaning a 50% bonus towards 6,000 (optimal after multifreq) which would be 6,000 + 3,000. I'm thinkin it's a negated thing though cause that would make more sense using the base instead of new numbers generated through the chain. True Sansha stasis web (14km rang, -80% velocity) + 15km optimal with Amarr Navy MF using pulse would be cool. The harbinger would still be more cost effective since it can fit MWD, Cap Injector, Scram, and Web along with a much heavier tank for my purposes of low-sec gate camping though. My problem with the zealot is that it is not cost effective. I do not know what can be done to the zealot to make it worth the cost. I do not think another turret is necessary although it can be one of many possible ways to make the ship cost effective. Note that when I say cost effective the key word is COST. You can compare this to TECH 1 ships (not even going to mention T2) ranging from Cruisers to Battlecruisers which HAC's should be competitive with (competitive does not mean own against) and you run out of reasons very quickly to use a Zealot. There are much cheaper alternatives that provide greater benefits. This is why the zealot has dropped over 40 mil on average in Domain region with the re-release of an improved, USEFUL, Sacrilege. --- Put in space whales!
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.09.07 03:59:00 - [10] Originally by: Silence Duegood Edited by: Silence Duegood on 07/09/2007 03:56:37 Originally by: Goumindong The only good Zealot build[that isnt a sniper] is an iteration of this 4x HP II MWD, 24k[faction if possible, RF desired] scram, Large Cap Battery II[or best named] SAR/MAR, overdrive, overdrive, 2xCPR], heat sink x 2 2x polycarbon 1. 3500m/s, cap stable without the repper, 325DPS[298 DPS with HAC 4, spec 4, surgical strike 4, rest at 5]. Zero tank, be prepared to run away if anyone knows what they are doing with regards to their drones[which you will want to kill if you can btw, but will have a hard time hiting them while still scrambling your target] You can change out the repper for another heat sink, but i wouldnt reccomend it, the mar lets you engage again. And its pretty much HOSED by the Vagabond in every way. In the Eagle thread you keep saying the Zealot is a sniper. Now you fit it with a scram and two overdrives. Liar. his very first line says "that isn't a sniper" This would imply in his opinion there are good sniper setups, but this is the only setup he knows, in his opinion (that isn't a sniper), which is good. --- Put in space whales!

Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.09.07 14:02:00 - [11] Originally by: twit brent My zealot atm has 10km optimal with multifreq with all skills maxed but HAC at only lvl 4 That sucks...the penalty comes into effect after the bonus from skills is applied. I could use Amarr Navy Gamma for more DPS than normal multifreq with an extra 3,125 optimal or go for Amarr Navy Ultraviolet for slightly reduced damage compared to normal multifreq but with an added 8,375 optimal which would put me at 18,375 (this is with HAC4 and Sharpshooter 5). Too bad it still doesn't warrant the cost =\ --- Put in space whales!

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